the one that was a date

If there is anything I’ve learned over my 30 years of life,
especially these last 2 years, is that I do not understand girls, and girls do
not understand guys.

but as different as billy, ben & i are- we can all agree on what is a date, even though the girls will all vehemently disagree… 

Here is the first thing

If a guy calls you up and asks you for dinner or a drink –
it’s a date! Nothing around it. If he calls you on the phone, he is thinking it
is a date. If it is a group invitation, or over email or “hey I’m in the
neighborhood” then it is different. But if he calls you up, he is thinking it
is a date.

Now, a date, doesn’t mean he wants to marry you, or that he
even wants to be in a relationship with you. A date and dating are totally
different. But if he asks you on a date (Even if he doesn’t say the word date),
there is some sort of interest there. He thinks you are fun or cute or something at
least. He may not want another date after the first one.

So, if a guy asks you out for coffee, that doesn’t mean you
have to be ready to marry him, or even know how you feel about him. He probably doesn’t know how he is feeling about you. But if you
know you have ABSOLUTELY no interest, then don’t string him along either.

I get so confused, because it seems like when a guy doesn’t
really express much interest, girls think it is much more. And when I can does (i don’t know what i was writing here, but i have to leave this sentance in, i can does…)
express interest, girls have no clue the guy likes her. But guys can always
tell.

Although, I guess this could just be Christian girls…
I asked a couple of my friends, what they would think if I
called up a girl and said hey I would like to take you out for coffee. They
replied “it’s a date” When I told them that some people don’t think of it as a
date unless I say the word date, the girl responded with

“NO Wonder you guys are all messed up!!!”

i could go on and talk about how much sports means to a guy and that is not so frivilous or how we can poke fun at each other and that can be encouraging, or how wrestling and beating each other is a form of the pyhsical touch love language, but i don’t think the ladies will ever understand…

Here’s hoping i get a date this summer!

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46 thoughts on “the one that was a date

  1. I have been thinking about writing “the girl” perspective on all of this.. so yes! Quite confusing! If anyone ever tells me guys and girls are basically the same.. they are lieing.
    Try adding in another culture into the dating mix and the chances of confusion are exponentially greater!

  2. yeah, see, there was a guy who was asking me to “hang out” last year. He never said the word date, and I refuse to think of it as one (espescially since I was misled and would not have gone if I thought it was one). Everyone else kept trying to define it for me, but I won’t think of it as a date unless the guy says it is. But that could just be because I’ve never been on a real date and don’t want to think my first one was with a complete stranger and I wasn’t aware until after the fact that it was supposed to be a date. That’s not fair.

  3. i agree with liz.  it’s not a date unless he says it is.  girls and guys should be able to hang out as friends without him needing to say… “oh… and it’s not a date”  so she doesn’t think it is one just b/c he wants to hang out with her.  that has great awkwardness potential.  now… if you used the phrase “take you out”… then follow that up with paying, etc… then the girl should be able to translate that as a date without you saying that exact word.  [although it’d be great if you could tell her on the “date” that you’re interested in her or in getting to know her better so it’s even more clear.]  it’s better to err on the side of clarity than to leave a girl confused or wondering… even if it seems obvious to the guy.  first of all… it’s not necessarily obvious to the girl.  secondly… in order to counteract the tendancy for girls to think that everything a guy she’s interested in does means that he likes her… girls will assume that nothing that he does means that he likes her until he says so himself. 

    also… i totally agree with these thoughts:  “Now, a date, doesn’t mean he wants to marry you, or that he even wants to be in a relationship with you. A date and dating are totally different. But if he asks you on a date (Even if he doesn’t say the word date), there is some sort of interest there. He thinks you are fun or cute or something at least. He may not want another date after the first one. So, if a guy asks you out for coffee, that doesn’t mean you have to be ready to marry him, or even know how you feel about him. He probably doesn’t know how he is feeling about you. But if you know you have ABSOLUTELY no interest, then don’t string him along either.”

  4. Now my question is who went on a ‘date’ recently or was it just talking in preparation for possible ‘dates’ this summer? Scott and I were talking after reading your post how funny it is that before you are married how much time is taken up by thinking about or talking about these types of things. And then just like that, you never think about it again. And that’s because your mind is filled with “now why did she/he get upset when I said that?” or “what did he/she mean when she said that?” Hm, guess its not all that different except that the person becomes only one person. And there is simplicity in that.

  5. I’m going to have to disagree with the rest of the girls – at least I still think I count as a girl, even though old – if he calls you up and specifically asks you to do something individually, even if it’s just hang out – it’s a date.  It’s nice if he says, “would you like to….. with me” because that does make it more clear, but I would still assume a date even if it’s, “do you wanna go get a cup of coffee?”.  If the invitation includes others or is issued over facebook then it gets pretty cloudy and the girl is better off to err on the side of “not date” – but boo on the guy that isn’t man enough to at least make a telephone call.
    So, should I pray that you get “a date” or “a serious girlfriend” or “a wife” – I think I did pretty well praying for a wife for Andy B!

  6. Let me clear up the confusion for ya ladies- it’s a date!All guys would agree, excpet those who think of a date as meaing serious relationship- so all this does is allow guys to go on dates with a girl, without calling them dates, which frees him from responsibility and later leads to more confusion.But let me ask… if i ask someone “Do you want to go see the Yankees and Cubs play?” Do i need to specify it is a baseball game?Or maybe “We’re going to see Death Cab for Cutie tomorrow” Should the person be surprised they are not giving a lecture?i conceed there is context for the question- who is asking it, how they ask it, etc.but don’t decieve yourself or be dumb about it

  7. it’s simple shutalicious… they just can’t. a guy cannot ask a girl [an individual, singling her out from every other girl in the world] to do something with just him without it being a date. if it’s one guy, one girl, and something that was arranged for you to get together [ie coffee, mall, movie, dinner, baseball game, etc. etc. etc.] it is a date.mook, i love how your post is PERFECTLY illustrated by the comments that you got here. you have girls vehemently denying that it’s not a date or “it’s not a date unless he specifically calls it a date” while you have guys adamantly agreeing with you. if your arguments presented in your post weren’t enough then all these comments should serve to be more than adequate.i think friends can go on dates without it being romantically inclined [and who ever said that a date has to equal romance, future marriage, or anything of that sort] but one on one always equals date. the end.

  8. then that’s something that in my opinion is dysfunctional/absurd about whatever portion of the christian sub-culture this is a part of.  people should be able to hang out with a person of the opposite gender just b/c they’re friends and like hanging out… without it being a “date.”  honestly… take a step back and listen to how ridiculous it sounds.  i think our culture is so entrenched in the idea of dating and getting married that it can’t think outside of that mindset.  we don’t have to label everything a date.  not everything has to be for the purpose of finding a spouse.  we’re relational beings and we’re meant to have friends and hang out with people.  and it’s okay to be friends with people of the opposite sex.  and it’s okay to hang out with them and not have to call it a date or explain why it’s not a date. 

  9. Ohman, there’s too much info here. Too many funny opinions. But, to add to the mess, I’m putting in my $.38. My opinion…You’re all half right. If I call a girl up and ask her to get breakfast or coffee or lunch or a dinner or a “hot date” (some sarcasm…don’t kill me) with me, then yes, it could be a date. But if I love Jesus and she doesn’t and we’ve talked about how we can never be together and we’re both ok with that, then it’s clearly not a date. And, if this is an old friend of mine, who I’ve known platonically for a long time, then it’s understood that this is NOT a date uless I specify otherwise. And, if I know a girl from another state who’s on staff (CRU…in case there was any doubt) and we’re buddies, and she’s in town raising support and and we grab lunch, that COULD be a date, but not necessarily. AND, if I don’t know a girl very well and I met her at a party 4 days earlier and she’s a friend of a friend, and I ask her to go catch Thai food, then that’s DEFINITELY a date. So it’s not the situation that crates the title of “date”. It’s the situation multiplied by the existing relationship. Allow me to explain via one of my bogus mathematical theorems.The DATETUDE (quantity of date-ness) is directly proportional to the product of the SITUATION multiplied by the EXISTING RELATIONSHIP. SITUATION X EXISTING RELATIONSHIP = DATETUDEClear as mud? Good.

  10. I gotta tell THE WORLD FORGOT that he’s way outside my world and, I’m pretty sure, reality. Guys and girls can be friends. They can hang out together. They can even pray together (yes, I DID just go there) and they don’t have to be dating or interested in one another romantically in the least. It’s called being friends. There’s an increasingly evil force in the universe called CHRISTIAN CULTURE and it’s killing our ability to relate to the opposite gender because it locks all of our 1 on1 ineraction with them into a romantic setting. How on earth does a young man learn what it’s like to be sit and listen and relate to his emotional (future) wife if he’s never sat and listened to girl before in his life? God bless Joshua Harris for doing things in a way that worked well for him. But I’ll be a monkey’s uncle if that’s the “right” way to do things. Having lots of female friends is the best thing a guy can do to serve his wife before he meets her. After he’s married he’ll have to set some boundaries and that will be hard. But, it won’t be nearly as hard as trying to relate to that wife without having had female friendships would be. Men, if you care at all about my opinion (actually persuasion) then you’ll have lots of female friends that you serve and die to your self for, and you’ll ask lots of girls on dates. Not just for the fun of having dates, but because you honestly want to find out if the things that make you tick are the things that make her tick.

  11. A guy could spend time with a girl, but my would he?Haven’t you ever seen that star wars epsiode of that 70’s show?Foreman goes over to beat up the guy who is spending all this time with Donnaand this is what ensues…Donna: he’s not trying to date meother guy: yeah i amDonna: WHaT?guy: why do you think i’m spending all this time with youDonna: because we’re friends?guy: blah blah blah… see just like a girl you spend all this time with her, put all this energy in and she wants to beEric and eneny together: Just FriendsEric: i know, i know… and here i was about to beat you up…other guy: sorry man…So, maybe it isn”t just Christian girls who are messed up…You talk about a Christian subculture that messes things up?This is what the Christian subculture has doneNOW a guy has to say it is a date for it to be a date – THAT IS THE CHRISTIAN SUBCULTRE!Non-Christians NEVER do that!When i talk to my non-Christian friends, that is what they find weird, that is why the girl Excaimed: NO WONDER YOU ARE ALL MESSED UP! because a guy can’t go on a date unless he calls it a date.by having to call it a date, it makes everything awkward, and puts pressure ont he date for one.One girl finally asked after arguing – do all guys think this way: to which i responded pretty much- at the very least non-Christians do…So, if you refuse to believe it, you could be asked on dates without knowing it…now, i have many female friends, and i think there is context.Guys and girls hang-out: after class, after work- there is no phone call made setting up a date. It’s casual.And i may stop by a girl’s place if i’m in town, and we may go out to coffee- that’s not a date. And i may help someone if they’re new in town (ie new job, new school) not a dateAnd there work-dates, that are not dates, and support-appointments that are not dates.Guys and girls can hang-out. But they certainly shouldn’t be best friends.i serve women, i ask deep questions, i get to know girls- no one can deny any of that. i do it too much actually. It is usually the girl that is not willing to invest in a friendship with me.

  12. Ok, so here is the situation that spawned the most recent conversation about this(though we have had it before here)One of the girls here met a random guy a couple weeks ago.He called her up (how he got her number i’m not sure- did she just give it out- there’s another story). He asks her what she is doing friday nightShe is retelling us what has happened- she says she didn’t know what to say or do, so said ok, and invited him over for dinnerShe then had to cancel – i say fortunatelyShe said she didn’t know what to say or do- i said say “no.” At the very least don’t do something without a guy there.She says “It’s not a date, he just wants people to hang out withmookie: “He has known ben for almost 2 years, Ben has called him, and they have hung out i think just once, and the guy has NEVER called Ben.”i think she got a little enlightened then, but the girls in the room really still didn’t believe iti don’t know what the guy’s intentions fully are. i assume if he called up a girl and asked her what she was doing friday night, it is an assumed date. He may not have a lot of interest, but it is another foreign girl living here, so he may want something…99% sure he at least wanted a date.

  13. I don’t think that’s a date. Though, I do think he’s interested in her. The way she responds to him, during that time, will determine the DATETUDE. If they make out, then yeah, it’s a date. I’m guessing that’s not gonna happen, so it’ll likely just be a guy that likes a girl hanging out with that girl. Which definitely doesn’t make it a date. At least I don’t think so.

  14. ps… the reason why most non-christians don’t have to say that it’s a date is b/c they just start making out.  the “non-verbal dtr” as andy calls it.  and THAT doesn’t always mean something, either.  point being… the secular world communicates a lot more non-verbally what they’re feeling romantically.
    christians have to call something a date or call something not a date b/c they’re more than likely NOT gonna just start making out. christian sub-culture [or maybe it’s just the crusade sub-culture] has made it so that #1… guys and girls are often found on opposite sides of the room… and #2… if a guy and girl hang out for any reason, everyone assumes there’s something going on.  therefore, if it’s not already understood that they’re just friends hanging out, the guy either has to say that it’s not a date or the girl is left wondering if it’s a date or not.  eventually, word will get back to him that he’s not being clear either by her or by someone who’s asked her about it… and then he has to create an awkward situation.
    i honestly think the sub-culture has harmed us here.  guys and girls should be able to be friends and hang out just b/c they enjoy each other’s company… without the “are they dating” virus going around… and without the criticism that if they’re not dating then they should be. 
    and you know what… maybe they’re hanging out b/c he IS interested.  and if that’s the case… it’s STILL not a date unless he says it is and/or somehow communicates his interest clearly.  but it certainly doesn’t need to be called a “date” every time a guy hangs out with a girl that he’s interested in.  big difference btwn “can i take you out” and “hey let’s go do this.”
    i think i’m repeating myself now. 

  15. I’ll just say I agree with Laura.  She verbalizes things better than I do anyway.
    And I have to go cool down after reading some of these comments.  They are making me too mad.

  16. i don’t think i read nearly all of this… but from another girl’s perspective, i’m gonna guess that if a girl is agreeing to hang out one on one with a guy and he hasn’t said it’s “a date”, that’s most likely because she’s hoping that he’s thinking its a date

  17. i didn’t mean to start such controvery… oh wait, yeah i did.Abe, your comment is my exact definition of dateIf i’m married or even dating some girl and a guy wants to “Hang out” with my girl- not go on a date but just hang out b/c he is interested in her and wants to get to know her- i’m going- b/c hey, it’s nat a date anyway right, with her and i’m beating the crap out of the guy…This has nothing to do with Christian subculture- unless you mean having to say it is a date…i think it is ridiculous to blame this on subculture… RIDICULOUS!guys & girls have issues b/c they are guys and girlsHere’s why i think the clarification becomes importantBy having to clarify it as a date1. the date becomes more serious, meaning more pressure, more awkwardness2. people don’t get to know each other b/c they won’t go on a date- they’ll only “hang-out”dangers of not realizing you’re on date1. girls begin to think they’ve never been on a date, never been asked out- when they have- you are a lot more beautiful and a lot more valuable than you think.2. more confusion when you begin to define the relationshipi don’t really care- if a girl thinks it is a date not, makes no difference to me. IT may boost my ego to talk of the dates i’ve been on- i imagine most girls don’t realize i was thinking it was date, but then, most of the girls i didn’t really pursue in a relationship…but alas, perhaps this is why when i came o staff my roomate and i said there would be no way we could ever be in a relationship with a crusade girl… then he went and betrayed me and got married to one…

  18. dude, if my comment is your exact definition of Date, then you don’t believe that both people have to consent to a date. Because it’s perfectly possible for a guy to ask a girl to get food and she’s not at all interested in him, though he likes her. She would never call that a date, and maybe he would. Then what do you have? You have a dude who’s calling things a date that aren’t because he more or less “tricked” her into it. No way man. A date is something different than that. Both people have to understand that it’s a date. And you don’t have to verbalize it in order for that to happen. You just have to be THAT OVERT about what the situation is AND put it into the context of the right relationship. Your whole argument is founded on the hypothesis that there is no platonic possibility between the genders. And THAT is an opinion that is not widely held….hence the common use and clear understanding of the term Platonic.

  19. according to Henry Cloud, it is OK for Christians to date non-Christians, so what do we do then?  Do we make out with them like non-Christians do, or do we have to define it as a date because we’re probably not going to make out?  Henry Cloud makes this cloudy.

  20. Mookie, this was really sweet: girls begin to think they’ve never been on a date, never been asked out- when they have- you are a lot more beautiful and a lot more valuable than you think.

  21. there is no such thing as a platonic realtionship between a single guy and a single girl [by single in this sentence i mean lone, one, individual… not their realational status.] but i repeat, there is no such thing as a purely platonic relationship between an individual man and an individual woman. ever. either he is liking her or she is liking him. or one of them is thinking that the other one is starting to like them. etc.face it, time begets intimacy. this forumla is truth in every single relationship you’ve ever had. whether it is your relationship with a family member, a casual friend, or God himself. unless spending time together makes you both realize [mutually] that you hate spending time together, then that time in each others presence is growing into a form of intimacy [whether or not you call it a date. and really, aren’t most of these disagreements here mere semantics anyway? i mean, c’mon!]

  22. somehow this became a post about platonic friendships, which was not the original intent.i am by no means saying guys and girls can’t be friends, but i don’t think we’re designed to be friends in the same way same-sex friends are friends…Costa, i am not a big fan of Cloud, except when he denoucned guarding your heart- down with guarding your heart!See, i would never go on a date with a non-Christian, at least if i knew she was a non-Christian. i suppose, as some of my friends have done- it is ok to go get coffee and then realize she’s not a Christian- one date does not equal relationship.Anyway, i am still waiting for Christine and Fertig to commentAs for Abe saying their has to mutual consent – if i ask the girl to coffee or dinner, she has recipricated… the interest level doesn’t have to be the same, it rarely is.And as always there are insinuating circumstances for one on one situations… and the main thing i said was- if a guy calls you up, not email, not happen-chance- if he calls you up and asks you if you are free to do something togther- and his purpose is to get to know you- it’s a date- even if he’s not calling it a date – it’s the same thing, that is just semantics.

  23. 1.  if platonic relationships weren’t possible… the term wouldn’t exist.  the world forgot… do you not have friends that are girls?  or are you interested in half of them and then assume that the other half are interested in you?  i’ll give you this… b/c there’s alway potential, if a girl is attracted to you, she’s probably considered the option of dating you.  but just b/c she’s considered it as an option doesn’t mean that she was ever interested.  if she’s not attracted to you, most likely she never even considered it.  consideration doesn’t mean that platonic relationships aren’t possible.  if you really think that guys and girls can’t be friends simply based on the fact that they’re PEOPLE… and between believers, brothers and sisters in Christ… then i actually feel sad for you b/c i think you’re prolly missing out on some great friendships.  i’m not trying to be a jerk… i’m just saying.
    2.  i ABSOLUTELY agree with abe on the mutual consent thing.  if i hung out with some guy and later found out that he considered it a date when i totally thought we were just hanging out as friends and had no interest whatsoever in him… i’d be really pissed off.  i consented to hanging out… NOT going on a date.  a date is a special thing for a woman.  so being played into one feels like either being unknowlingly manipulated into something we don’t want to be a part of [which can be a sensitive thing for women who’ve been hurt by men for ANY reason in the past where they’ve exerted their strength in a negative way]… or… that the guy is nuts b/c he’s living in a delusional dream world by secretly taking a girl on a date without her having any clue that this is some romantic outing.  if it’s a date… be a man and say it is… or give her some indication that you’re not just buddies [going back to the idea that guys and girls SHOULD be able to hang out as buds without something going on].  why can’t you just acknowledge it as a date so she knows what she’s getting in to?  if you like a girl and want to take her out… give her the option of affirming you by telling you that she’d like to go on a date with you… instead of essentially lying about it and tricking her into something.  if you’re interested… by all means, go ahead and hang out with her… but just don’t call it a date unless you’re ready to make sure she knows it’s one, too.  for our sakes, please.

  24. Apparently you have missed the entire point of this blogYou give your consent when you say yes to dinner or coffee.if a guy says a group of people are coming over and it is just her- well, that is not consent, that is a trick. though, there was a seinfled episode where Elain was tricked into a date- she won a bet so the guy bought her dinner and Jerry and George were like- so he’s taking you on a date, she;s like no, but then at the end the guy was introducing her to his parents… c’mon people get with it.Quite frankly, you guys sound like you contradict yourself. You say that a guy shouldn’t have to explain himself, but then he does, or that a date doesn’t have to be serious, but then you set up rules so it becomes that wayYou can hold to your opinions, but don’t misrepresent what i’m saying.oh well, i wish my friends read my blog, and that others would leave their comments here…

  25. Did you just support your point with an episode of Seinfeld, and then tell “us” to “c’mon people” ? No, man, you c’mon. Are you kidding? Among the 4,000 reasons why that’s not a valid point for argumentation is the fact that that’s a characature and it’s not reality. Also, you say that when you agree to get coffee you’re agreeing to a date. Well, the fact is, even if you think you are, you may not be. Because he may not consider it one. You see, what you’re saying is that even if two people who are good friends, who don’t consider getting coffee a “date”, go out for coffee, then, actually, they’re both wrong and it IS a date. Which is you asserting your “superior understanding and intelligence” into THEIR relationship and telling them that you know what they’re doing better than they do. It’s THEIR relationship. If they agree it’s not a date, then it’s not a date. And if you go out for coffee with some girl and you both call it a date, then good for you. I’m not gonna argue. I don’t get to enforce my definitions of “date” on you and your relationships. You and I have no say in other people’s relationships. I’m gonna call Shunta on the phone today and ask her if she wants to come over and let me make her dinner tonight. And you know, it’s not gonna be a date. How do I know? Because she and I know what our relationship is like. And if I liked her, but she didn’t like me, then it would STILL not be a date. And nomatter how strongly you or I feel about our position, we can’t justfiably move into other people’s frienships and tell them how to label the situation. We can state scriptural truth about morality, but we can’t nail down nebulous definitions based on our own opinions. Neither of us. That’s just not left within the realm of appropriate possibility.

  26. mookie- a billion e-props for having your comments overflow to a second page. as for the topic at hand, well we rehashed it rather well yesterday at FT. my only thought- STINT = different. and for the original situation- totally a date

  27. Abe, you sound like you’re arguing against Mookie’s opinion with your opinion! Now you’re asserting YOUR “superior understanding and intelligence”. Just calling it how i see it. If we truly wanted to go biblical, we’d just have arranged marriages. You don’t see many guys just “hanging out with girls” in the Bible… and don’t tell me that Jesus did… his twelve most intimate companions were his disciples… all men. Find me a place in the Bible where any man is just talking, walking or hanging out with a woman alone, as friends. The reason is that in any relationship there is the possibility of intimacy and hurt on either side. I am ALL FOR DTRing, labeling, calling it something… for the mere sake of not wanting to hurt one another. You actually seem to subscribe to this or you wouldn’t be arguing for people to “Call a date a date”. I had a great “platonic” relationship that went sour when she started liking me. It was well understood that i had no interest beyond friendship, and yet it went south. You and I DO have a say in other people’s relationships. If a friend is in sin, i need to call him out on that. If a guy friend is taking a girl out regularly, won’t call it a date because he doesn’t want to “label it such”, which really means he doesn’t want it to get too serious or is just stringing her along, then i need to call him out… he could be hurting this girl. It’s my responsibility to keep brothers accountable to responsible dating. If i think that he needs to label it a date, i’m gonna let him know. He can agree or disagree with my opinion. I think we can justifiably tell people how to label their relationships. They can also choose to disagree. There is no absolute truth in dating, just a bunch of people trying to figure it out. According to my wife, she really liked that i DTRed… never left her wondering. She wouldn’t change that for the world. I think THAT is “Normalized Christian Dating”. Enjoy your… hang out time… with Shunta!

  28. Well, Laura and Abe thanks for all the comments, you certainly have created quite the stir over here and given us something to watch for now that we finished watching lost.Though I have found some of your comments somewhat arrogant and attacking… and well, abnormal compared to just about everyone else I know and everything else I’ve seen (but hey what do I know?)… I still love you…And maybe i come accross as arrogant too, if i have, i apologize.I hope the two of you can have coffee together and dinner together and listen to endless love in the dark with whoever you want and have no problems. You two obviously have a mutual understanding, I hope that you encounter others who think the same way as you do…As for me, when I ask a girl out for dinner or coffee, I’ll treat the situation the same whether she thinks it is a date or not. I know some have not thought it a date, when I was hoping/thinking it was, I have stories… but y’know I’m still going to look at the time as a time to get to know her, and encourage her, and no expectations for anything else.I think I used to just do stuff with girls, and not go on dates, but that was mostly just because I was afraid of either making a commitment and perhaps rejection. As for now, I guess I’m willing to admit if I call a girl up to hang out there is a reason.And, I have just hung out with girls one on one – I do it all the time actually, but it’s rare I call a girl up and ask her out for something specific, it is usually girls on my team, or when I’m running thru town and suggest getting together for an hour or two… And if I ask a girl out on one date, I don’t think that requires for me to give any more clarity, though a girl may want it, sometimes I just can’t give it. I still don’t think one date necessarily dictates relationship, though it could for some…And, I won’t spend a ton of time with a girl, single her out to confuse her or to pee a circle around her so other guys won’t ask her out. I apparently have caused heartache for a girl or two in the past, and well, that just sucksI hope that I will continue to love and serve the women in my life, but my pursuit is not one to gain more and more female friends, but to find a wife.Abe, may you have plenty of female friends who you’ll never go on a date with. And Laura may you have many guys who will be your friend and never date you.It sounds like this is what the two of you want, I guess it sounds normal to you, but it doesn’t to me.But, then what is normal anyway?And thanks to half-mom. Billy and I cheer you on- coming thru and praying, you can pray for a wife… which will start with a date – I’m not ready to let my parents give me an arranged marriage yet- no matter how much they want to…And if people want to comment, I’ll keep reading them…

  29. i really like what you have to say here, mookie.  i agree with what mark just said in that i can’t tell you how much i appreciated how clear andy was about everything from the get go.  and i realize that we might be the exception in how insanely clear and fast things were with us.  i also think (and i’ve said this to laura) that not everyone (in fact i doubt there are too many others) who could just hang out like abe and laura and not end up with one of the two people having more than friendship kinds of feelings for the other.  i know i couldn’t have.

  30. I’ve done some skimming, and was wondering if anyone has suggested the very obvious criteria that if the guy pays then it is a date. One time I didn’t know I was on a date until she didn’t offer to pay her half when the dinner bill came, but that was a wierd situation. Much love to everyone out there. A year ago I’d have 10 comments on this post with everyone else, although I’m not sure what they would have said.

  31. ok, thought more about this one after conversation 14 on the topic and to make sure i am crystal clear (this is for you mookie) i’m gonna have to go with billy and mookie on its a date. It’s not a will-you-marry-me, it’s a date. A let’s-get-to-know-you date. I think its been mentioned before, but there is a clear difference between going on a date (or two) and dating. And as those two guys have put it, either here or in person…don’t remember, he asked you on a date to get to know you and see what relationship lies ahead and let you get to know him and see what relationship you want to lie ahead, he asked you on one date, not ten, not to marry. Which also frees up the girl not to freak out about a date because hey, he may not seem “your type” when you see him at staff conference those three days, but there may be a lot there you don’t know and here’s your chance to find out…find out before picking out curtains and kids names. So, all that to say I agree, and actually feel kind of honored by mookie’s stance that if a guy takes the time (and the risk) to call you up and ask you to spend time with him, just him, then bottom line it’s a date. There was something about you that warranted that effort and that risk and that makes it a date. and lets put this out on the table, i think a lot of girls are afraid to call it a date because they can’t stop their (cinderella saturated) minds at a date, if we acknowledge that the guy is the slightest bit interested its a battle for many girls to not flip straight to theknot.com and start picking bridesmaids. Mark put it well in spoken words the other day- if one of you was married to someone else, would this hangout be ok? (i.e. business related, involving a group and your significant other, etc)if you would change plans or behavior, it’s a date. Not calling it a date is what lets guys (and girls) get away with fake dating.

  32. oh and get your nerd-salute ready on this one= dictionary.com definition of “date” -a social appointment, engagement, or occasion arranged beforehand with another person: to go out on a date on Saturday night.-a person with whom one has such a social appointment or engagement: Can I bring a date to the party?

  33. Nope, fellas, I’m not arguing that I know what’s right. I’m just arguing that none of us does. So we can’t make “do’s and don’ts” about it. That’s all. That’s why I pointed out, very overtly I might add, that NEITHER OF US can choose to assert our definitions on the other. My point is, call your stuff a date of you want, but when someone else doesn’t, don’t tell them they’re wrong. I’m not telling you that your time wasn’t a date. You can call it a trip to the moon for all I care. I’m just saying that Mookie’s opinion, or mine, or anyone else’s makes no difference in how two people choose to define what they do. If they call it a date, it’s a date. If they don’t, then it’s not one. So don’t go telling me that because I asked Laura over for bbq chicken, and we ate it, together, on my back porch,…that we had a date. Because it wasn’t. She knew it wasn’t. I knew it wasn’t. There are a thousand reasons why it wasn’t a date. Now, if you want to do the same thing with a similar person and call it a date, then by all means, you were on a date. But don’t go imposeing your assumed correctness on me. I’m not imposing any of anything on you.

  34. I’m all for guys doing what’s best for a girls heart and not stringing them along. But we’re not at all talking about that. We’re talking about two people who have an understanding. And, I’ve had lots of platonic relationships that have seen one of the parties develope feelings for the other. That never means that the relationship has to “go sour”. If that’s what happened then I’m sorry it did, but that was a direct result of how you two handled that attraction, not a result of the attraction directly. Also, in regard to dictionary.com comment: I agree with that definition, but it doesn’t apply here. The sole reason being that the definiton you present would apply to Mookie and I going out for coffee. And I think he and I would agree on this one…it would NOT be a date. Though, the recent images he’s posted are quite dashing….and mixed babies ARE the cutest. Whoah…hullo! I think the line is way back there. Sorry homies.

  35. I love jetlag and reading comments on peoples posts that have ended up in my inbox one month later. I JUST saw “When Harry Met Sally”tonight for the first time, which is a really appropriate movie to see before reading this post and it’s eons of comments. I agree with you Mookie. The confusion is the fact that we are dealing with men and women and I think that will always lead to miscommunication and confusion to some degree because we just think differently. Abe, I don’t think you can be that overt enough to not create confusion. What means something to one person will not necessarily translate to another. Miscommunication is just bound to happen in some sense in some way at some point. hmmm.. Okay time for bed. Cheers for entertaining reading.

  36. i can’t believe people are still making comments on this…
    obviously the terminology of date is the most undefined. Don’t roomates go out on “roommate dates” 
    i still hold a date may or may not include romantic feelings.

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